Substitute Teachers Lounge
Substitute Teachers Lounge
Weathering the Storm of Student Discipline for Substitute Teachers
Have you ever found yourself in the middle of a classroom, attempting to navigate the stormy seas of student behavior? I'm Greg Collins, and in this candid conversation, I'll open up about my own journey through the challenges that every substitute teacher faces. From understanding the nuanced contexts of student language to managing physical confrontations, I share the strategies that have helped me maintain both order and empathy. This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the trenches of education, as I delve into the art of providing constructive feedback, the intricacies of reporting incidents, and why it's crucial to stay respectful and pragmatic when the classroom feels like a pressure cooker.
This is Greg Collins. It's episode 257 of Substitute Teachers Lounge, april 23rd 2024. You know we haven't talked about it too much because I'm not much of a negative person, but we probably should. You're going to come across students in your substitute teaching that you're probably going to have to write some negative comments about. Let's talk about how you do that, whether it be formal disciplinary action or just informal notes to the teacher as the days progress.
Speaker 1:Substitute Teacher's Lounge. All right, guys, hope things are going well with you. I had a great weekend. We had a volleyball camp for the younger players, like grades six through nine, so that went real well and it also helped me bond with some of our high school players because they helped us out and some of them I've known longer than others. So I got to know a lot of them a lot better and we had a great time, a fun time, sometimes even a goofy time, as we poked fun at each other and laughed with each other and they made fun of my volleyball skills. But you know, once I got my arm warmed up, I was okay and got to see my grandson's soccer game yesterday. I'm going to go to my granddaughter's dance recital later in the week. So it's got a good week and I finally got all this stupid cold for the most part. But there's some things that have happened recently and they weren't students.
Speaker 1:But you have to do negative feedback sometimes. I'm going to tell you how I do it. Some of you will I won't say disagree. Some of you will choose to do it differently. Some of you will be forced to do it differently and I'll tell you what that means here in just a moment. So let's talk about first negative feedback, in which paperwork is involved, the more serious. I'll finish talking about it with fighting.
Speaker 1:But let's first talk about language. You know I could do a full podcast on language. I probably did in the past. In some regard, I teach high school all the time now, so I don't want to say that I let some of it go. Maybe I ignore some of it because, to be honest, I heard it when I was in a high school classroom in, you know, in the 70s. Some of the kids today are amazed when I tell them that the word sucks was just as bad to say back in my day than about any other word you can say, and some of you I'm going to guess that a lot of you are much younger than I am that listen to this. Some of you probably out there don't believe that either. So when do we do a disciplinary action for language? I do know in a previous podcast I've said this, but I'll repeat it here.
Speaker 1:We got into a discussion about this on the Substitute Teachers Lounge Facebook group page one time, and most of the discussions on there I don't get involved, I would rather it be the members' discussions and it was going back to back. Here's what I do with language. And then I had to get involved. When somebody said this, they said well, our school has a policy. So I just jumped on there and said you know, you might think they do, but unless they have outlined every word on the policy, that's not acceptable. Well then, the policy really means nothing because it's just as subjective as if you had no policy. Now, my, I guess, philosophy it's too strong a word, but here's what I do in high school and the kids have been very nice about it.
Speaker 1:If I hear some language at a table, I will say all right, guys, and I hate to stereotype, it's usually guys, but it can be girls too. I usually go up to them and say listen, guys, I can't tell you how to talk at home. I really can't tell you how to talk here, but I would appreciate it. If you're going to use language like that, wait until I can't hear it. Wait until I'm in the back of the room. I told that to a table one time and they actually apologized. They said okay, I'm sorry, mr Collins, and we went on from there. Now, if we had some words that are vicious is too strong, but you know what I mean Words that are directed at another person, especially if it looks like it could escalate into something physical, then that is disciplinary action. Now, having said all that, in fact, now that I've said that, let's drop language and talk about fights, I've only had two fights for which paperwork had to be filed, and you know, for that matter, all fights, paperwork has to be filed.
Speaker 1:Let me back off a little bit first and let you know once in high school, before classes, I heard voices escalate in the hallway and I went out there and you know, for some strange reason I was the only teacher standing in the hallway and I saw a punch thrown. I'm not even sure if it landed, but I said guys, settle down. And then some of the other teachers came out, didn't really say anything, but by that time one of their friends had separated them. Anyway, I'm not sure either. One of them landed a punch and then they went their separate ways. But the school security camera caught all the footage and they were suspended. I don't know how long, but I did hear the other kids say that they were suspended in that situation. So there was a write-up. They didn't ask me to say anything, but there was a write-up.
Speaker 1:In my personal teaching substitute teaching career of the last six years I've had fights develop to that level and to be honest, it ended up being just one punch thrown. And when I took the students to the office they were understanding that I had to do it. They talked to me on the way down. I said you know, and I remember in one case somebody said something verbally to a boy, and maybe he wasn't said something verbally to a boy and maybe he wasn't, you know, clever enough to come up with a phrase to say back. So he just punched the kid in the shoulder and of course he didn't look up at me to see if I was watching. He didn't care if I was watching and he punched and as I was walking him down to the office, I said, man, I wish you had just talked to me first, we could have worked something out. And he said I know, mr Collins. I let my emotions get away from me and I have talked to him. This was several years ago. I have talked to him several times after that and we still talk on a friendly, jovial basis.
Speaker 1:In that situation. I walked them down to the office. The principal took care of it, filled out the paperwork, had me come by and asked me if I would agree, because they wrote down basically what I told them. They wrote it down and they had me sign it. There are classroom situations I have been in subbing where there are disciplinary forms in the drawer. I'm not necessarily sure that the teacher really wants me to fill one out. She might prefer that she fill it out when she comes back, but either way, they are there. Sometimes it comes to that. The only other fight was between two students fighting over who got to sit in a certain chair and one of them got the other in a headlock. One of them shoved the other and I had to escort both of them down and that was a similar situation. Now one of the people in that situation continues to talk to me. One is not quite as jovial, but I don't know what the disciplinary action was in either case. So that's how that ended. But that was situations in which a document has to be filed. Now for a substitute teacher. Sometimes it's tougher. It's tougher for me, I'll say it that way. It's tougher to me.
Speaker 1:You've heard plenty of episodes of this podcast where I tell you I like to give the student the benefit of the doubt. We all have our moments. I was a pretty good kid. I only lost I'm going to say it like this because it sounds so silly now. I only lost my recess once in my life because I was doing something stupid that had to do with plumbing. Tell me, that ain't an embarrassing reason to get written up. And the principal? I lost a week of recess and the principal came out after three days and said he said, greg, you've been out here long enough. Just go out and play. And I guess that was back then. Our elementary schools were actually or I should say our first through eighth were all in the same school building. So it was a little bit different than it is now. But that was my situation and that's what happened to me.
Speaker 1:When I encounter a negative situation and you all know that I have encountered more in middle school this last year than I ever did before and I have had to leave notes for teachers, everything from. You know I'm sorry. You know I've always loved teaching your class, but in this situation I don't think I can come back, that you know I do this more for fun than the money and not everybody can say that, but I do this for fun and this class was not fun and I've got so many other classes I can put myself in. I apologize, but I'm going to have to skip out subbing for you the rest of the year and it was uncomfortable. In fact I know the whole school knows about it because I was just telling you about this volleyball camp and two of them were from that school this weekend and they came up to me and said Mr Collins, aren't you ever going to come back and sub us again? Not everybody is like that fourth period class that made you upset and I'm thinking man. So everybody there knows that I'm not coming back because that fourth period class and I don't know. I left that negative note. I was still diplomatic. I told her.
Speaker 1:Now, between me and you and everybody else that's listening and all the kids that may hear this, I really don't even want to go back to that school at all. I mean, it was bad enough that I don't even want to confront those kids in the hallway, although maybe the last week or two which we're not that far away from that now maybe it's going to be worth it just to go back in. And if I see those kids, see what they say to me, if they say, mr Collins, we're so glad that you're back here, or if they just ignore me, you know, maybe I've got a decision on whether I go back or not. When you have negative comments to leave, I would try my best to do it this way. Let's start with the student first. Let's just say that something negative happens and you have to discuss it with the student.
Speaker 1:I will call them up to my desk and I'll say listen, most teachers, most substitute teachers, would leave comments about what just happened. Do you think I should Listen to what they say? What if I let you write the comments? What would you say about it? And sometimes I have actually let them do that. That really kind of relieves the pressure. I'll tell them, if you want to write comments, that you know I need to leave the teacher something about what happened. Why don't you write up what you think I should say about what happened and if I agree with it? In some cases I've actually signed that letter and left it for the teacher.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I will tell the kids and I very rarely follow through on this because I like giving them second chances I'll just tell them. You know, listen and you know sometimes the teachers will tell me to do it this way. The teacher just wants me to write down names if there's misbehavior and give it to him or her tomorrow so that they can take care of it. They don't want me to discipline. As a substitute teacher, you know, technically I don't have the right to discipline. It is my job to leave sufficient information for the teacher to take care of it the next day. I don't know what that teacher did the next day when I told her I wouldn't be back. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but anyway. So that's the way I would write up a note Sometimes.
Speaker 1:If you can just tell that you've come across a defiant student, I would challenge you. Sometimes you just finally get fed up and I have too and then I leave the notes, as I should. Leave the notes as I should. I just, you know you want to stick with facts, but yet you want to say this as well. You want to say all right, here's what quote Johnny did. I'm not sure if I know Johnny, who's a student, but here's what Johnny did. It was unacceptable. I thought it was serious enough that I left you these notes At the same time. You know, I don't know what preceded that, I don't know what was said to that student to get them fired up. If I'd heard the conversation maybe I would be a little bit more sympathetic. But I will stick with the facts. I know, you know, as his teacher, that there may be something going on with that student personally and I know you will take that into consideration I still think he's a good kid and I want the best for him. That's kind of how I would do it Write down the facts first, what happened.
Speaker 1:Do not get emotional about it, because then you'll write stuff down and make it. I'm not going to say you're going to lie, but you'll make it more. Well, you'll make it more emotional than it really needs to be. Stick with the facts, stick with your understanding and put some sympathy in there. Make sure you say something to the effect I know that you know. Even if you just say it this way, I expect or suspect that this student has the potential to be a good kid if they want to be, and that you all know this.
Speaker 1:More times than not, when something like this happens, it's because they're showing off for their friends that happen to be in the same room. I think that's what happened the day that I told them I wouldn't be back. There was too many of those friend situations and they felt like they had to show off One of them when they made a comment they shouldn't have. You could just see him look around and smiling about how proud he was of what he just did. So that's it, guys. Try at least to be diplomatic. Do it the way you want to Do it factually, not emotionally manic. Do it the way you want to Do it factually, not emotionally, and try to at least close with some sort of uplifting comment. That's how I would do it. Every kid has a negative day. Every substitute teacher has a negative day. Every volleyball player has a negative day every now and then, and I try to leave it in such a way that if I see that kid again, I haven't gotten him into too much trouble and he knows that we can get along great every time that I'm back in his classroom.
Speaker 1:And one closing comment that has nothing to do with the rest of the podcast, but this podcast is now on YouTube. Youtube has made that much easier and I am linked to YouTube, so this will actually publish automatically. So if that's more convenient for you to watch it through your Fire Stick, you're not really watching anything. It's just the logo for Substitute Teachers Lounge, so you don't have to look at my ugly mug, but you can actually run this through your television. Of course you know if you've got Alexa, you can always say Alexa, play Substitute Teacher's Lounge podcast. Now, it's probably going to take five to ten seconds to find it, but Alexa will find that for you.
